Questing -> Missions

[Nurvus]

Here's my view on questing:

I go for dynamic quest avaliability.

Here are a few good examples:

- Random NPCs - can show up and request someone's attention, and offer that person a task of sorts, rather than (apart from Plot quests) having the same old NPC asking 10.000 characters to save his daughter from the clutches of the dragon that was butchered 9.999 times so far.
Continuing with the random NPC, he'd vanish after the task was completed. ANd another random NPC would show up elsewhere, maybe nearby, maybe not.

- War Quarters - where you can enlist to participate in random warfare missions, where you are given a departure time and both pick-up and drop locations.

- General Quarters - where you are given random missions to escort/protect miners and other kinds of resource gatherers, or researchers (some ruins were found and are to be investigated for historical-intelligence or technological-advancement purposes)

- Your character has brains (that work) - Since your character has a reasonable idea of your faction/race's goals and interests and should be on par with the current state of things, it is reasonable to assume that if you find an object you do not recognize, you can pick it up and take it with you, possibly getting a job/task to learn more from it or escort people who can do that for you, or use some communicator from where you are, asking for advice on the best course of action, possibly waiting for backup, in the form of soldier or researchers who can investigate that object/location you found.


Some cool concept

Quests might be split in "grade" ranges, rather than levels.

A character that is starting up is like a rookie, and no one will assign a task of importance to a nobody unless there is absolutely no one else to take it, and even so, highly unlikely.

So as you complete tasks of difficulties you are allowed, you are awarded higher grades and allowed to take on tougher tasks.

This would kind of reflect how good your character is right now, not his (theoretical) level.

[Lord Aries]

One thing you said is going to be in-game, "dynamic questing."

It won't all be "go to NPC Soandso and get this quest." It will be setup to where you have to actually adventure and "find" quests instead of just point A-B-C-loot.

I could probably go into a further explanation but with how early the development currently is I would rather hold back so people don't go in expecting one thing and getting another.

[amz181]

One thing you said is going to be in-game, "dynamic questing."

It won't all be "go to NPC Soandso and get this quest." It will be setup to where you have to actually adventure and "find" quests instead of just point A-B-C-loot.

I could probably go into a further explanation but with how early the development currently is I would rather hold back so people don't go in expecting one thing and getting another.

thats good, its so @#%$! anoying when theres just a random banana farmer in a desert asking you to get his bananas back from a goblin.

Oh and i like the idea of warfare mission except, at random times a NPC pops up in the middle of a city of Deva and Algar,

So bam the NPC is there in the middle of the city of Deva blasting out on the chat "Call to arms the Algar are attacking this city" this will then carry on for around 15 mins

Meanwhile in Algar city, which is btw, the closest Algar city to the involved Devan city
The NPC in the middle of the city is blasting out "Call to arms were assaulting the devan city" this will go on for around 15 mins...

Then...
Bang people who talked to the Npc are trasported to either the Devan city gates (algar), and if your a Devan then you just stay where you are, the the fighting begins. These can all happen randomly about 3-4 time a week, whether your defending or assaulting if you lose then your races money goes down or you lose the city (if the game includes city taking)

[Lord Aries]

Don't be surprised if you see stuff like that happening in Kaos War.

[Nurvus]

Oh and i like the idea of warfare mission except, at random times a NPC pops up in the middle of a city of Deva and Algar,

So bam the NPC is there in the middle of the city of Deva blasting out on the chat "Call to arms the Algar are attacking this city" this will then carry on for around 15 mins

Meanwhile in Algar city, which is btw, the closest Algar city to the involved Devan city
The NPC in the middle of the city is blasting out "Call to arms were assaulting the devan city" this will go on for around 15 mins...

Then...
Bang people who talked to the Npc are trasported to either the Devan city gates (algar), and if your a Devan then you just stay where you are, the the fighting begins. These can all happen randomly about 3-4 time a week, whether your defending or assaulting if you lose then your races money goes down or you lose the city (if the game includes city taking)

If an outpost or a city is being attacked, if "scouts" or message reach other outposts/cities of the same faction, callings for troop deployment may come out in the city, obviously.

The random missions would be random if it was possible.
You seem to be referring to PvP deployment missions, wich would probably be planned beforehand, like having 4 hours to answer the call for the "Nth" wave of the "battle" that is to begin, or something.

Like "Soldier ranks and above are required" or something like that, depending on the expected difficulty.

As for the random thing, obviously that random NPC is as much in danger as the rest of the NPCs.

Furthermore, other than the deployment military missions, and maybe even in those, I don't see where you would be stuck doing anything... so I don't quite get what you mean with your post.

[amz181]

Don't be surprised if you see stuff like that happening in Kaos War.

w00t!!:) you guys really do think of everything, atleast nearly everything *imagines penguins who dance for money*

[Nurvus]

w00t!!:) you guys really do think of everything, atleast nearly everything *imagines penguins who dance for money*

That makes no sense at all...
...now if you said they dance for fish... :p

[amz181]

lol :p

oh and as for the 4 hour wait, i mean like 15 mins and totally random, poof, and depending on how quickly you can spread the word to other players and get them to come and join up in that city turns the tide of the battle, so noone knows its coming, and you have a small time to react instead of fight in 2 hours, that to me would make the event less attractive and a lag fest...

[Nurvus]

Successful war isn't totally randomly decided or something...

It usually takes some planning. Alot, or a little, it takes planning.

So when I mean 4 hours to answer the call for the Nth wave, see it like this:

- there will be a "war" in 5 hours.

Enlisting for the first wave will end in 4 hours.

Assuming there will be a wave every 30 minutes, 30 minutes later, the announcement for the second wave would be placed, with the enlisting ending in 4 hours from there (4h30 -> 30 mins before war starts)

And then waves would head out for deployment.

When I say waves, it doesn't mean litterally. Doesn't mean the strategy is like that at all.
There would be callings for defense and offense, etc, and different strategies.
The strategy may be one single decisive wave, if the resources were enough (good economy and strategy allowing for many many drop-ships, in the case of humans, to be created and maneuvered into war at the same time)

Once players achieved high ranks, those among the highest rank could start planning strategy (if non avaliable, NPCs would by default), etc.

Alot can be done to make wars/battles even more enjoyable and immersive.

[amz181]

I still think that it should go ahead without planning because it would just be better, the quick call to arms would render even the most powerful of races helpless.

[Nurvus]

Glad you're not behind an army, then, huh? :p

[Rauko]

Regardless of the timing and method of transport, and even the location:

In any large scale battle, it would be very interesting if you could blend almost Battlefield (the series) aspects of a map with strategic positions.
So the faction's mutual goal is to reach and destroy a certain point in order to "win" the battle instance. But when choosing to join in the battle you select a different part of your territory in the map to start at. And the map could be pulled up at different command points and you could see where the enemy is rushing and direct yourself and others to go to that area to repulse them.

Now you have ambushes, feigns, all kinds of strategic elements that DO require planning in order to pull off, BUT they do not require planning to start the fight, rather the planning is part of the fight itself.

Scenario:
-NPC starts blasting over the channels (and these vid things too) that an army of Deva is about to invade our territory in [insert name...]
Me and other Al'gar speak to the NPC and say we will go to help. We are entered into the defense legion (larger and less detailed than a raid or small party).
-I can see who else is in the legion and communicate with them at this point, but we haven't left yet. You don't know the map/territory yet either, but experience would come into play here if you've fought there before you'd have an advantage.
-After 15 minutes or so (really shouldn't keep people waiting more than 30minutes, some do have real lives and they are online NOW and want to play NOW) a final confirmation comes up: Are you ready to [transport to [x] territory? [Let's Go!] <-> [Not Anymore]
-Assuming you go, it loads and then brings up this map screen I spoke of. The map has several defense points and you get to select which one to start at. It shows who is at each point already. You have...1:00 to decide or it picks for you.
-Meanwhile Deva in their city are volunteering to help invade the same territory and have been forming their own attack legion.
-At the same time all players are sent into this territory. They are sent in and pick their attack positions.
1:00 is up and everyone is sent in.
Commence the battle!

Of course how the battle unfolds and what the objectives are would depend upon gameplay things we don't know (how rezzes work, for one) but you can imagine the possibilities from there.

[claytondora]

Don't be surprised if you see stuff like that happening in Kaos War.


Sweet! I have sorely missed large scale world pvp. Damned Warcraft...

[Joker]

Another thing you could implement when the players are inside the battle discussing the stratedgy you could have 1 npc who could the captain or leader of the siege with different choices for different stratedgies. It could be based on like a voting system for all players that will choose one of the multiple stratedgies allowing them to vote once. Whichever recieves the most votes from the players will be the likely stratedgy they will be using.

[Moloch]

It will be setup to where you have to actually adventure and "find" quests instead of just point A-B-C-loot.

<shrug> Seems like such a system will cater to the Bartle minority.

You'll need to balance it with player frustration and casual player time availability. It''s no fun if you spend half your playtime looking for the next quest(s).

Additionally, this will increase the temptation to grind out levels through mobs. Why wander about aimlessly when I could be earning exp and loot?

[Nurvus]

<shrug> Seems like such a system will cater to the Bartle minority.

You'll need to balance it with player frustration and casual player time availability. It''s no fun if you spend half your playtime looking for the next quest(s).

Additionally, this will increase the temptation to grind out levels through mobs. Why wander about aimlessly when I could be earning exp and loot?


I disagree.

The first point, is that given a certain difficulty of access and completion, there is a certain reward quality.
If the access and/or difficulty are improved, so can the reward.

Your comparison assumes the access dificulty improvement, without a reward adjustment.
Onto specifics, if you consider an easy access quest is a good reward enough to be worth doing it instead of grinding mobs, then increasing the access difficulty only makes the quest not worth your time if the reward does not improve, wich is a mistake, not a conceptual flaw.

A reasonably well designed world, allows players to make intuitive decisions on how to travel, and with anything as simple as a map, they can decide not to go pass through the same place more than once.

Another thing, Guild Wars, for example, has a feature in the map that shows you the path you have taken since you last used a area transition.

There are alot of tools to help giving the game immersion and fun, without making it linear.

-----
The second point, is that having quests you must find, instill you to explore.

Instead of - like in most games - quests being the sole drive that takes you somewhere, it would be you who decides where to go, and get rewarded for it, with quests.

Freedom, in most games, is an illusion - You don't explore, you are guided.
If you do explore, you will gain nothing from it.

Therefore, having quests you must seek out, allows you to actually explore.
Allows the developers to design random challenges, dangers and due rewards, worthy of a true explorer. - challenges that would mean alot less if you were taken there automatically. Challenges that include the difficulty in finding them.
Allows the world to unveil to you according to your decisions, rather than your path being decided for ou.

-----
In the end, a game can be well designed with easy access quests that take you to explore every corner of its world.

That can be very fun, for your first character... for each faction.
After that, it starts to become very repetitive.

So in the end, what matters is, what binds the players to a MMORPG?
The more freedom, randomness of challenges and variety, the better.
Linear = bad.
-----

Back to an idea in the original post of this topic, I suggested that since the character is not necessarily brainless, and has an idea of the needs of his own faction/race, it is not unthinkable that you obtain objects or sight certain places, and deem fit to retrieve/report your findings to a superior officer or something alike.

Like those items in WoW that start quests.
I think that should be alot more frequent in a game, and more logical, and it would inspire exploring, and make it worth it.

If your character has anything to do with the development of the faction, finding ore veins and reporting their location, then watching as a resource gathering ship comes to retrieve the findings or place workers on the site and possibly pick you up, is quite nice. - this assumes means of remote communication, like Scrying, radio, etc.

So rather than being sent to fetch something, you find it and retrieve through your own line of thought.

[weewee23]

This is a bit off topic but still related to quests.
Ive played a bunch of mmo's(free mainly) and they all have the typical kill X monster and get X ammount of drops from said monster. Now I know that there probably wont be any quests like thoes in the game, but even for any type of quest that involves finding a drop from a monster I think that there should be a different way of actually getting that drop rather than just slash and hope you recive the item. -- Sry for gramatical errors if there are any--

Not everyone may agree (Im open to criticism) with this but I think players should have to actualy earn the quest drop in a different way. The only thing I can think of right now is some kind of sequence to snatch (or rip out) what you need from the monster. By sequence i mean something like in god of war where your char might for example get on the back of the NPC and you have to hit various buttons with relativly accurate syncronization to gain the item. The harder the monster is the harder it is to acheive one of these sequences perfictly (Think of ripping off medusas head in God of War ;D if uve played it).
I think this would eliminate the fact that you would have to pray for some rare quest drop :'( and that your skill would actualy have a say in whether you got the item or not, and eliminate the aspect where you need to get 30-200 of the drops. I think it would be fun to watch your char do this as well as doing the sequence. The only problem I can think of is making all thoes animations. If anyone thinks of any other problems plz comment. TY

[MESS14H]

Not everyone may agree (I'm open to criticism) with this but I think players should have to actually earn the quest drop in a different way. The only thing I can think of right now is some kind of sequence to snatch (or rip out) what you need from the monster. By sequence i mean something like in god of war where your char might for example get on the back of the NPC and you have to hit various buttons with relatively accurate synchronization to gain the item. The harder the monster is the harder it is to achieve one of these sequences perfectly (Think of ripping off Medusa's head in God of War ;D if Ive played it).

Sounds v much like a twitch control setup similar to that of a game like teken or street fighter. definitely gonna promote sales in game pads. Remind me again which system this game is going to be released on the, ps3, xbox or maybe the wii, oh wait its for those things with a kb and a mouse.
Hugs his KB and promises never to button mash again :p
No a far simpler solution has been around in fps shooters for decades
you wanna troll heart, HEAD SHOT!. or you want the head for a trophy quest then you shoot it in the heart. Having location HP would be easy enough to code in i would imagine

[weewee23]

Sounds v much like a twitch control setup similar to that of a game like teken or street fighter. definitely gonna promote sales in game pads. Remind me again which system this game is going to be released on the, ps3, xbox or maybe the wii, oh wait its for those things with a kb and a mouse.
Hugs his KB and promises never to button mash again :p
No a far simpler solution has been around in fps shooters for decades
you wanna troll heart, HEAD SHOT!. or you want the head for a trophy quest then you shoot it in the heart. Having location HP would be easy enough to code in i would imagine
Well something like in Resident Evil 4 (PC version) could be done. Your way works too tho but basically all I want is a unique new alternative to basic quests

-off topic

Also look at your quote of my previous comment, after the smiley it says if uve played it, but in your quote it says Ive. Thats CRAZY!

[MESS14H]

heh yeah looks like my spell checker decided to change it ;D