Reducing 3 factions to 2.

[Thylacine]

I realize having 3 factions is one of this games innovative elements, but I would like to make a suggestion. While I personally would love to see 3 factions stocked full of players, I can't help but think that the Devas and Al'gar factions will both possess a population 2-3 times larger than the human faction on each server(maybe more).

My suggestion is: If the beta shows that 3 factions will most likely not be a good idea, then you can reduce the factions to just 2 sides. The 2 factions would be Devas and Al'gar, however when humans enter the war (character creation), they must decide on which side of the war they will be on.

Humans who join the Deva may have a slighly different look or "racial abilities" than the humans who join the Al'gar.

Problems with this suggestion: You'd have to either "split" the Human city into two parts, or to get rid of the current human city and create 2 separate human cities. Also new art would have to be created for the humans on each side of the factions.

One suggestion that could counter the Human City problem is that you could still keep a 3rd human faction in the storyline, but it would only be populated by NPCs. You could say, in the storyline, that a group of Humans defected from both factions and built a city just for humans. The city would be a non-PvP zone between humans as rules enforced by the city prevent humans of opposing factions from killing each other.

Anyways, those are just my suggestions in the worst-case scenario that a 3rd faction doesn't go so well.
-Thy

[amz181]

It could easily be weighed out if this happened, say if deva and algar were dominant, the devs could easily put great resources that are in high demand, and are sparce in other place,in the human cities, thus both algar and deva would have to be quite nice to the humans, and also alot more people would choose the humans as a race to begin with, kinowing that they had the best resources.

Also i think your forgeting that we'll probably be allowed to have more than char, and for me im going to be a algar first time, and im not sure about you but if i make a second it will almost certainly be a human, having had my taste of supernatural ill want a taste of natural

[Thylacine]

I guess it will depend a lot on how the factions are able to respond to each other.

If it's like WoW where each faction is completely shut-off from the other, then I have hard time believing 3 factions will work out well, even if the least populated has more resources. Having more resources to level-up skills faster does not equal a better end-game experience. What use is it to be part of a faction with lots of resources if you cannot find enough people, and of the proper classes, needed to raid a dungeon?

However if the factions are allowed to communicate and group with each other then it's not going to be much of a problem at all.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see how they plan to implement it.
-Thy

[hanstin]

As far as i believe the humans have great technology so people will be intrested in them to

[trast]

Depending on what race is best, in wich aspect.. I would probably choose the one that suited me the best. And alot of people will... We don't know if it'll be a problem before it's out.

[Moloch]

I realize having 3 factions is one of this games innovative elements Not really innovative, DAoC went there.

The devs could easily put great resources that are in high demand, and are sparce in other place,in the human cities, thus both algar and deva would have to be quite nice to the humans, and also alot more people would choose the humans as a race to begin with, kinowing that they had the best resources. This is then where the min/maxers and uber guilds will go. They’d dominate PvP and the server’s balance will almost certainly be ruined.

If it's like WoW where each faction is completely shut-off from the other, then I have hard time believing 3 factions will work out well, even if the least populated has more resources. Having more resources to level-up skills faster does not equal a better end-game experience. What use is it to be part of a faction with lots of resources if you cannot find enough people, and of the proper classes, needed to raid a dungeon?

Depends what you mean by shut off – accepted it means not being able to group and share xp/loot, it doesn’t stop cooperation though. Most people I knew in WoW had (at least) two accounts, a fair few had three: people would dual box on their main (not as bad as the Shadowbane buffbot experience of old), and had an alt account on the other side. Server-specific Vent channels allow communication between players. Guilds would cooperate to team outdoor bosses; when they popped a horde guild would grief Alliance to let a specific Alliance guild ‘port in and tag the mob, and then swap roles when the Boss next popped. You could manipulate differences between the Alliance/horde economies through the neutral AH at Gadget. Etc, etc.

A faction which has better resources will attract the best guilds. It’ll give them an edge. Individual, casual players might be stranded in an underpopulated faction (or server), but organized groups will see the imbalance and take advantage of it. Unless the combat mechanics support zerging then these guilds will chew up and spit out the less well resourced other factions.

However if the factions are allowed to communicate and group with each other then it's not going to be much of a problem at all. Then, IMO, there isn’t any point - beyond aesthetics - in factions.

[Thylacine]

Well, no matter how it is implemented if a guild/clan of players is organized enough they can make the best of most all situations. My concern is mainly on how 3 factions will affect PUG-ing casual players in the least populated group. Or even players that aren't casual, but would like to PUG a dungeon when others in their guild aren't on or don't want to.

WoW has the biggest subscriber numbers and yet it can still be hard to get all the classes needed for certain dungeons, even at prime time hours, which is why I get worried about splitting the population up to a third faction. Unfortunately I never played DAoC, so I'm not familiar with how they pulled off 3 factions, I'll def. check that out for peace-of-mind :)

On that note, do we know yet how the devs plan to allow the factions to interact with each other in-game? Will it be a "PvP only" type thing similiar to WoW? Or is it still in the TBA phase?

[Nurvus]

I personally think that, you should start with one of the factions, and have a certain "reputation" value with each faction. starting at hostile with the other 2, or something.

And according to your actions, you could even be a traitor to your race, gain reputation with another faction, eventually lose reputation with your initial one, etc.

I mean, starting somewhere, but letting your actions decide where your loyalty lies.

I'm thinking concept here, not mechanics. But I think there would be no problem.
Where players' actions are concerned, they already go wherever they want.

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Also, would be great to be able to take over several places.
Like several outposts of a certain faction, being taken over by another, completely.

Perhaps even go as far as being able to take over certain enemy "NPC" outposts, and "chase them out" into exile/hiding.
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There's alot of possibilities.

Well, no matter how it is implemented if a guild/clan of players is organized enough they can make the best of most all situations. My concern is mainly on how 3 factions will affect PUG-ing casual players in the least populated group. Or even players that aren't casual, but would like to PUG a dungeon when others in their guild aren't on or don't want to.

WoW has the biggest subscriber numbers and yet it can still be hard to get all the classes needed for certain dungeons, even at prime time hours, which is why I get worried about splitting the population up to a third faction. Unfortunately I never played DAoC, so I'm not familiar with how they pulled off 3 factions, I'll def. check that out for peace-of-mind :)

On that note, do we know yet how the devs plan to allow the factions to interact with each other in-game? Will it be a "PvP only" type thing similiar to WoW? Or is it still in the TBA phase?

I read somewhere about a Developer of Kaoswar mentioning they don't want the game to railroad your playstyle into a pre-defined path, rather wanting to give players the most freedom of character customization/building/gameplay possible.

Along that line of thought I suppose we should assume that, in a game where classes - as we know them - won't exist, there won't be a "successful group" definition to beat a challenge.

In other words, there will probably not be any strict need for specific character builds within groups in order to succeed at a task.

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World of Warcraft and many other games FORCE you to build characters in a certain way, illuding you with "Talent trees" and similar crap to make you think you have a choice, but in fact you're just given some tools to find out the best build - wich is already defined, and it is always the same for a given purpose.
The most recent patch reveals more and more of their true face, where they destroyed most of what little illusion of customizability there was, by making talent trees even more obvious and linear.

It's not worth conceptualizing along WoW's line of gaming.
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[Rauko]

I'm sorry...but from everything I've read, it seemed like faction dynamics would be decided by the players.

I mean..are all humans at war, at all time, with all Devas and Al'gars?
That just doesn't make sense to me...

I run a small pbbg and in designing my next one I have already decided on three kingdoms to choose from. Two are always at war with eachother (Al'gar and Devas would fit this well) and the third can be at war with one, both, or technically neither.

It really depends on the individuals though...

One way to perhaps make Humans have more appeal is to allow them to pick and choose who to aid.
If I want to be a "good" human I can side with the Deva, maybe build up positive reputation with them, therefore negative with Al'gar.
Or do the opposite if I want to be a "bad guy"

I suppose you could go back and forth to try and stay neutral with each side.
Now, as a whole you could have Al'gars invade the Human side, of course, even if you personally have good reputation with them. But that wouldn't stop you as an individual from being able to go into Al'gar towns and be recognized as a friend.
Think this would be much more realistic..

I bet you could even build it to total all the personal reputations and decide that way which of the two sides the humans would be at war with.
Then it could be different on different servers...that would be really nice.

And, though I doubt you'll do this, I'd suggest to even let an Al'gar or Deva build up positive rep with the other side, become traitors. It would be very hard cause you'd start with negative rep, but man...that would be sweet, and add a LOT to the realism.
In that situation building positive with your faction's enemy would lower rep with your own faction, so you could find other players recognizing you as a traitor and being able to PvP you once your reputation is high enough with the enemy.

So...I could be a Deva that has turned bad and now basically lives and fights with Al'gar...

[Nurvus]

In those regards, you should be able to be a good Alg'ar or a bad Deva too.

There is a story behind all this, and I think it makes sense for the 3 belic factions to war each other.

The most I can see, is certain lineages within factions, being more favoring towards certain other factions. Like some among the Alg'ar rather killing humans first and save Deva for last, allowing themselves to form something almost like a temporary alliance with those sympathetic Deva when up against the Humans.

There can be alot of plots here, and that could, indeed, be the players' hand.

But the story behind all, I think it pretty much defines a kaotic war 8)

[Rauko]

Leaving the diplomacy to the players would inevitably lead to far more total chaos than any storyline could create lol

But your point is well taken that this all fits within a plot. I like your adaptation with the lineages and would at least like to see that, where certain groups dislike one enemy faction more than the other.
So a Deva and Human could always team up against a group of Al'gar if the occasion called for it.

Like the ability, when in a battle involving 3 factions, to offer temporary truce with one of them, even to a specific group, which would last only until the common goal was met, or either side called it off.