Divination - Ideas

[Nurvus]

My first post here.
Haven't read everything about the game, so go easy.

These are mainly question-ideas.
I don't really expect most of this, but am letting you know I think it'd be really beneficial for a game to have some of the concepts shared below.

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Items

(1) Crafted items with shape independant of quality.
Mechanically speaking, it might work by having the "Pattern/Plan/Blueprint" (quality), and the "Design" (shape/color).

So you would could learn the Design of any item you got, or show it to the crafter in question.
Then request a certain quality of item with that design. Simple. ;)

--Changing item shape after creation? No.
--Changing item color after creation? Yes.

Not necessarily to trick griefers, even though it eliminates much of that negative metagaming, but to have a sense of realism, and I think it's quite doable.

In the end, since everyone would have certain preferred style of look, and both lowbies and high levels could access some or all of the Designs/colors, quickly it would not matter if you look god-like or newbie. No one can tell wich one you are.

(2) Item Concepts:
- Blade Bow: bows that can be swung as a double blade similar to Illidan's weapon in World of Warcraft's
<Purpose: defensive/offensive capability without losing any bow function, while being heavier>

- Gunblade: to anyone who played FFVIII, it's nothing new: a useful blade, 1 or 2 handed, with an appropriate weapon embedded.
<Purpose: cutting, shooting, or shooting while cutting (timedly)>

(3) Item Properties:
- Damage types -> Slashing, Piercing and/or Bludgeoning.
- Several parts compose an item. Example: Sword -> Hilt, Guard, Blade.
Alike Vagrant Story crafting system, wich I love, blades would have a certain slashing/piercing/bludgeoning damage capability, and the hilt+guard would have a certain preference of types (taking better advantage of certain blades)

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Loot/Inventory

(1) Inventory and item sizes in inventory with a realistic space usage. No ridiculously big inventories. Something alike Diablo 2, at most.

With this, it might be possible to make a more viable economy, where you are likely to leave gear behind, because you simply can't carry everything...

(2) There might be quick access "small inventories" like potion belts, ammo belts,

Any items not in such "Hot Inventory" would take time to access, instead of being near instantaneous.

Might be some equipment with such stuff embedded in it, like pants and sleeves with rows of slots to place loads of quick access darts/kunai.

(3) Give higher decay times to more important items.

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Combat

(1) Maybe too much, but would be cool to, more than just making 2handers strong and dual wielding fast&blind, have deflection capability on items.

Two-handers are strongest, slowest hitting, easier to dodge/parry/block, but harder to withstand it.
It's harder to parry with a Two-hander, but easier to withstand it.

1-handers end up being weaker, but faster hitting, harder to dodge/parry/block yet easier to withstand it.
It's easier to parry with 2 blades, but harder to withstand it.

So a very powerful blow from a two-hander, unless dodged, may not be withstanded at all. Someone blocking with a shield might be knocked down, parrying with a weapon might have it fly from his hand, or have the blade go through the weapon as if it wasn't there.

(2) Assuming there will be spells, besides 2-hander, 1-hander+shield (if any), 2x 1-hander, and unarmed,
would be cool to see 1-hander + magic, and stuff like that.

Casting spells with one hand would take longer than with both hands, or produce weaker effects within the same time frame.

(3) Would be great to see that well placed blows are actually deadly.
I'd like to see in a game mostly blocks/dodges, etc.
Basically, in a fight, you'd use a combo to set up an opening in your opponent's defenses for a decisive strike, not 100 blows to the head.

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That's all for now.

[amz181]

i like quite a couple of your ideas there a certain one: the gunsword reminds me of a gunlance of of Monster Hunter, they were great, basically you could use it to stab them but then you folow through with a missile shooting out the end, the downside was that it could only hold 5 missiles :p

And aslo another thing occured to me, can purdy please make riculously large weapons, they are so cool, and so fun to use, and it always makes you feel good to have a bigger sword than your mate :p

[Nurvus]

I love big weapons.

Like FF7 Cloud/Sephiroth big kind of weapons. But I like them to be wielded like the heavy weapons they are. Not like they are some feathers in your hand.

Anyway, from the size of the axe in the hand of them Hell guys, it doesn't seem far from it.


Anyway, I'd like the Devs to consider that, if such big, clumsy - yet deadly - weapons are to be implemented, they might be big enough to be used as a shield.

Shields and big enough weapons should be able to block any kind of attack, be it projectile, melee or projectile-type spell (Fireball, etc). Ofcourse, if you are blocking, you're not attacking.

[Moloch]

(1) Crafted items with shape independant of quality ... Not necessarily to trick griefers, even though it eliminates much of that negative metagaming, but to have a sense of realism, and I think it's quite doable.

Personally don't see the 'realism' of having a level 1 toon being able to look like someone at max cap. Secondly, being able to recognize a person's level, enhanced stats or abilities, or even predict their build based on the look of their gear is an advanced PvP skill. Most people don't have the game knowledge, but the best do.

In the end, since everyone would have certain preferred style of look, and both lowbies and high levels could access some or all of the Designs/colors, quickly it would not matter if you look god-like or newbie. No one can tell wich one you are.

Again, I don't see any gameplay value added. Additionally, this would remove an element of the reward for highend players, assuming that Kaos doesn't go with a SB-like vendor roll system for gear. I do agree that a system allowing toons of any level to have a (recognizable) aesthetic is good - some of the WoW gear combos look like a Tauren has vomited on them after a night on cocktails and curry.

(1) Inventory and item sizes in inventory with a realistic space usage. No ridiculously big inventories. Something alike Diablo 2, at most.

With this, it might be possible to make a more viable economy, where you are likely to leave gear behind, because you simply can't carry everything...

Again, the question of "realism" in a game with a futuristic setting involving angels and demons is meh. Gameplay, IMO, is much more important. Inventory space, particularly in a game which involves the collection of resources for crafting, should emphasise convenience - otherwise you end up with a timesink running mats back and forth to a crafting location to use them. I'm not a fan of meaningless timesinks.

(3) Give higher decay times to more important items.

Decay is 90s - a sloppy game design mechanic for a valuesink. In a loot drop system repair costs work well enough as a valuesink (although the costs for attempting world/server first kills in WoW PvE were insane due to the wipes, particularly before TBC) without penalizing players.

[Nurvus]

Personally don't see the 'realism' of having a level 1 toon being able to look like someone at max cap. Secondly, being able to recognize a person's level, enhanced stats or abilities, or even predict their build based on the look of their gear is an advanced PvP skill. Most people don't have the game knowledge, but the best do.

I mean the shape only, not the color/texture.
An item made of Iron would likely have a different colouring than one made of crystal or mithril or something.

I find it cool to be able to recognize quality from the material, but kind of lame to recognize it from the design, unless it is, of course, some kind of well-known uniform.

Again, I don't see any gameplay value added. Additionally, this would remove an element of the reward for highend players, assuming that Kaos doesn't go with a SB-like vendor roll system for gear. I do agree that a system allowing toons of any level to have a (recognizable) aesthetic is good - some of the WoW gear combos look like a Tauren has vomited on them after a night on cocktails and curry.

Well.
Ofcourse I don't mean everything should be as easily accessed.
For example,
my sugegstion would work for complex things like being able to order something with the same design of whatever piece of gear you just got hold of - yet don't need - from something/one you defeated;
or simple things like just having several designs avaliable for any/all gear sold at merchants (independently of quality).

Even better, both of them.
You'd have the regular looks, and at the same time, the possibility to re-use the design of a world-boss dropped gear (that you don't need), having a crafter "dismantle" it to learn the way around its design, and then make something with its design for you.

Again, the question of "realism" in a game with a futuristic setting involving angels and demons is meh. Gameplay, IMO, is much more important. Inventory space, particularly in a game which involves the collection of resources for crafting, should emphasise convenience - otherwise you end up with a timesink running mats back and forth to a crafting location to use them. I'm not a fan of meaningless timesinks.

My main point here is that a well sized inventory can pretty much define an economy, thus allowing you to impose a more balanced loot system, and cut down on trash drops, etc.

Having items occupy logical sizes in the inventory also makes more sense, when you can stack a few bottles in a small space, but not a greatsword.

This could also bring a true value to items. Making greatswords more expensive because they occupy more space, and are less convenient to carry, than two longswords, for example.
Or even making items of the same type, like big bottles of potions of a certain "strength" being less expensive than smaller bottles with the same effect.

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Thanks for the reply (not the double one, though ^^).
Even though many of my ideas were contradicted, I am very happy to have a yet more glimpses at the cool ideology that seems to be behind this project. Keep it up.

[trast]

You are all for the realism aren't you? :o Ever played Wurm? That game is made so that it should be realistic, this will probably not be. I agree with moloch, that the gameplay is the most important thing.

And I will say it again, a game needs to be simple for everyone to like it. You can't add things that complicates gameplay, just for the sake of realism.

[Moloch]

My main point here is that a well sized inventory can pretty much define an economy, thus allowing you to impose a more balanced loot system, and cut down on trash drops, etc.

IMO ((loot + craftables + collectables) - valuesinks) = economy
inventory size is a mechanic, all smaller inventopries achieve is to aid farmers - who have more time than you or me to make runs.

Even though many of my ideas were contradicted, I am very happy to have a yet more glimpses at the cool ideology that seems to be behind this project. Keep it up.

Just a difference of opinion :)

My opinions come from my preference for FFA PvP, and so aren't necessarily good for KW. Won't stop me from opening my mouth tho ... ;)