Character Skills/Actions

[Spartan]

Will characters be able to use Blacksmithing/Writing/Faith/Sacrifice type of Skills/Actions in the game and then be able to open shop to further the skill.

EX:

Level 1 Blacksmith: Can make Level 1 - 5 Swords/Guns/Armor/Misc
Level 2 Blacksmith: Requirements; Make 20 Level 1 - 5 Swords/Guns/Amor/Misc, Must sell 15 total goods.

[Vladimir]

so basicaly your asking for crafting skills mixed in with mercantile skills? sounds good to me.

[hanstin]

There are not levels in kaos war...

[a chewy rock]

I think he's refering to the quality of the item when he says level.

[Spartan]

Ya, "Grade or Item" because KW don't have levels. The more you advance your knowledge in a skill the better items you can make.

[Vladimir]

Ya, "Grade or Item" because KW don't have levels. The more you advance your knowledge in a skill the better items you can make.

wouldnt that just be the logical thing to do though?

[Spartan]

Ya, but it needs to be controlled with a new way of advancements. Its boring always leveling by creating, why not by selling/trading/creating/upgrading. Having a wide range of "Blacksmith" abilities like repair, upgrade, create, destroy, sell, modify (color/style) would be cool instead of just having to create an item. FFXI, all people do is make arrows or swords and you can advance quickly in crafts, why not make them earn better abilities with more to do.

[Mister Matt]

so have like a mercantile skill?

[a chewy rock]

It's kind of pointless to add an additional skill when that skill is closely asscoiated with the other. If you make something what are you going to do with it? Sell it! No reason to make that be 2 skills.

[Spartan]

Why not need 2 skills to do something. 90% of jobs in the world require that you have more than one skill. If your good at making Glass Works, you also need to have a skill in Business to sell those goods, you wont be able to sell something buy just going up to random people saying "I made this, buy it" you need a Store to lure people into your "studio" to look at your different peices or work, so they get to look at what you have made.


Oh, I came up with a great idea on how to incorporate 'Player Created Content" without using a 3rd Party out of game feature. If any of you have seen the game "Spore", you can create your own creatures. Why not allow a blacksmith to use something like that, have Long Blades, Short Blade, Curved L/S blades, Full Tang, Partial Tang, Alloys, Metals, Color, Length of Blade, Grip, Pommel, Guards, Edge, Blood Groove, etc. And having the ability to minipulate the design using Poly Points, would be AWSOME. People could literally spend hours making there own unique swords / weapons / armor. Even weapons / armor for creatures. Having that feature would allow for hundreds of thousands of differents swords.

Then they could take that weapon / armor to a wizard/mage class and have the weapon acquire magical elements/spells.

Weapons could be given names to its unique feature by the creator.

Its a huge engine to implement, but it will definetly out-do WoW. Wow breached the 8 million mark with the Burning Crusade expansion.

If a game had Player Created content that was ingame, there would be no need for updates, the players would update the game themselves, besides the bugs/glitches. the devs wouldn't need to create new content other than races/areas.

Thats what I think would destroy WoW, because WoW needs to pic up the pace with content.

You may be able to acquire the engine from the Spore Team, and modify it to create weapons/armor along with the buildings/creatures like in spore.

[a chewy rock]

The whole player created content is a great idea but it's a lot of stuff. It be awesome but hard to do I'm pretty sure.

With the 2 skills thing... It's different in a game then how it is in real life situations. In the game you make a sword or whatever it is that you make and when you do you gain experience in blacksmithing. So when you've used up your metal and have however many swords you just made you either use one for yourself, give one to a friend, or sell them. Why should selling them be a different skill when it's pretty much the next step of blacksmithing? You shouldn't have one level raise as a secondary gain of raising the skill that you are focused on. There's no point. It'd be just an extra number to brag about when all it does is show that you've made lots of swords or whatever.

[Spartan]

I just don't want any Craft Buffing. I hate so many MMOs because all peeps do is craft buff for themselves. Like in FFXI, Make arrows to gain high level, then make level 5 weapon/armor, done with craft, next craft.

[Will]

I just don't want any Craft Buffing. I hate so many MMOs because all peeps do is craft buff for themselves. Like in FFXI, Make arrows to gain high level, then make level 5 weapon/armor, done with craft, next craft.

Forcing people to kill mobs to rise in power is in no way different from forcing them to craft. Do you want someone to tell you that you have to craft to get a better weapon? I didn't think so.

As for trade "skills", I can't share too many secrets(What else is new? ;P), but there are no current plans for a "selling" skill. Most existing skills are to help you in your crafting, resource management, resource gathering, and other things of that nature. Eve currently has a skill that limits the amount of buy/sell orders you can place, and although it has it's place and importance, I'm not sure if it's entirely necessary (Remember, there is a skill cap that governs the crafting skills as well. They fall under the same umbrella)

[Spartan]

Forcing people to kill mobs to rise in power is in no way different from forcing them to craft. Do you want someone to tell you that you have to craft to get a better weapon? I didn't think so.

As for trade "skills", I can't share too many secrets(What else is new? ;P), but there are no current plans for a "selling" skill. Most existing skills are to help you in your crafting, resource management, resource gathering, and other things of that nature. Eve currently has a skill that limits the amount of buy/sell orders you can place, and although it has it's place and importance, I'm not sure if it's entirely necessary (Remember, there is a skill cap that governs the crafting skills as well. They fall under the same umbrella)

For this Post anything that is Brown is the difficulty of that scenario.

I didn't say they can only craft for a better weapon. I just wish there was a way to limit people from Craft Buffing early in the game. Its stupid for people who have played the game for 300+ hours with a mediate ability in crafting (who craft 1 - 20 times a day) to be craft buff from a guy with a few friends giving him resources so he can make high ability craft goods, and have 3 hours logged in the servers. Putting a limit on how many of each item a day (small items that are super easy to craft but still give you crafting +'s) so that someone can craft whore in 1 day.

I think someone should have to die buy a weapon, go find that monster, steal the weapon, reforge it, empower it with magik, and name the weapon for the person to get a good weapon. lol, jk, thats bleach. lol.

I do think people should earn good weapons though, as it be by a 1 on 1 with a boss (Group Battles produce lower quality items, unless its a raid battle scenario; 1 on 1 = Player Versus 1 - 5 (Medium/Hard)
The More Boss' Produce More Items:

1st Boss = Armor (Leggings + Helmet)
2nd Boss = Armor (Shoes + Gloves)
3rd Boss = Armor (Under Armor + Shield)
4th Boss = Armor (Chest Plate + Cape)
5th Boss = Weapon (Weapon Depends on Player Favorite Wpn Class)

*Minions will drop normal random drops.

Raid = 10+ Players Versus Horde (Medium/Hard)

Horde (10 - 30 Minions): $20K - $30K + Horde Seal/Crest + Items (Common + Uncommon)
Horde (30 - 50 Minions): $40K - $50K + Horde Seal/Crest + Items (Common - Rare)
Horde (50 - 100 Minions): $70K - $100K + Horde Seal/Crest + Items (Uncommon - Unique)
Horde (100+ Minions): $125K - $250K + Horde Seal/Crest + Items (Rare - Unique)

*Hordes will give each player the same amount of dropped items after the battle is won:

So if 5 Rare Items are dropped, each player will recieve 1 of those Rare Items; if 10 Common/6 Uncommon/3 Rare/1 Unique Items are dropped, each player will receive one of each item.

**Horde/Boss Seal/Crest are entered into you Bestiary, and is/are Usable as Misc Equip Items (Some may give Bonus Stats/Items when Equiped)

***Money is not equal to all, it lines the pockets of those who would rather pick up money then fight with comrades. (Can be distributed equally if Leader pics up money after battle and the money is in the Party Bag (Party bag holds x3 - x9 the amount of space than a normal bag depending on the party size (After x6, The Leader can choose other members to hold a partial bag allowing a faster pickup, items will be transported to leader when returning to town for distribution, items will be either randomly allocated or selectively allocated, but everyone will get items from the party they are in, the leader has no way of retaining the items for him/her self)

****Solo Players earn 1/2 the amount of $$$, but they can earn far better items. Solo Hunts are the only way to get "Cape's/Under Armor" for a specific Boss/Humaniod Minion Armor Set.

*****Cape's can be any back armor that is a Cape/Jacket/Misc Armor Peice. Some Sets will have Massive Weapons, no Cape available due to the fact that the weapon will more then likely be stored on the characters back. Ex. Goliath Axes/Double Wide Great Swords/Bows.

Characters can choose to store there Medium/Large Weapons (Swords/Axe/Dagger/Whatever Type) on either their Belt + Legging/Shin/Thigh + Back.

Example:
Legging: Holds Knife/Dagger Type Weapon
Shin Area: Holds Knife - Small Sword Type Weapon
Outer Thigh: Holds Knife/Dagger or MiniCrossBow Type
Right/Left Side of Belt: Holds Knife - Medium Weapons
Back Side of Belt (Uses both the Right/Left Slots is used): Holds Medium - Large Weapons
Back: Holds 2 Medium/Large Weapons, Bow/Crossbow, or an Massive Weapon.

This can allow for a player to hold multiple weapons. Main + Concealed (For Quick/Sneak Attacks)

Got to Go, thats what I have for now, I will finish this later.
:) Not bad for someone with No Game Dev Degree (But I will get one in a few years, once I get a job and go to college)

[a chewy rock]

I have one question. Why would solo players get less money?!?!? Shouldn't it be more if any difference at all since they were ALONE!? And I like the party bag idea. Regular inventory space multiplied by number of people in the party. You'd have to make it be either random distribution or where you get all players to agree on who gets which items.

[Spartan]

SOLO PLAYERS get less money, BECAUSE THEY GET BETTER ITEMS!!!!!!!

So even if they get less money, they items balance out.

Raid Group might get:
$75,000
Heavy Armor: (Worth $17,000)
+38 Defense
+50HP
+50MP
+5 to Strength/Magic/Agility
Misc Items: (Worth $8,000)
Amulet/Ring/Herbs/Potions/Materials

Total Worth: $100,000

Solo Player against the same Horde:
$50,000
Heavy Armor: (Worth $23,000)
+45 Def
+50HP
+50MP
+7 to Strength/Magic/Agility
Lance: (Worth $32,000)
+60 Attack
+8 to Strength/Agility
+Lightning Aura
Misc Items: (Worth $20,000)
Cape*/Amulet/Ring/Herbs/Potions/Materials

Total Worth: $125,000

*Cape is worth $10,000 (as an example, some may be $20,000 - $50,000)

So the Raiders got $100,000 worth of stuff, but its not as good as Solo. And the Solo Player also acquires the Cape and Lance.

Raiders Acquire $25,000 in Loot/Goods.
Solo Acquires $75,000 in Loot/Goods.
:)

[Mister Matt]

Though it balances out, it almost encourages solo play in a game all about multiplayer.

[Spartan]

True, but in MMO's the SOLO players are usually the weaker ones, which makes no sense because they don't share EXP, but yet the tend to take a lot longer to level, which I never understood.

I understand he might have to fight longer because he doesn't kill as fast as 2 - 3 people do, but wouldn't that make him stronger with more stamina/endurance because he is fighting longer, using more strength.

The 1 Solo would fight a Tiger, so he gains 70 EXP. He would use more strength and Stamina than a group of people, but in turn when he leveled he should have grown more than the group did because he was "Working" more than the group did. Why would a group of 3 people lifting 400lbs for 10Reps gain the same amount of strength and stamin that 1 person lifting 400lbs for 10Reps? The Solo player would have lifted a total of 4000lbs, while the group lifted 1333lbs each. So, they should in turn be weaker than the solo. Why would the group be as strong as the Solo. As a group, they would be as strong as he was, but as a Solo Person, the group members would be 1/3 the Solo's strength. The group would have to work longer and harder than the solo did, but in most MMO's the Group Players level up the same, the don't gain as much EXP, but there stats are the same.

Ex:

Warrior (Solo)
Level 50
Strength: 65
Defense: 80
Magic: 20

Warrior (Group of 3W's)
Level 50
Strength: 65
Defense: 80
Magic: 20

Why would that be the same. They kill 20 more monsters to level, but the damage they all take wouldn't be the same as the Solo. The Solo player would take more hits, attack more, and use less magic because he would concentrate on Defense to stay alive, and strength to end battles. The groupies would use more magic on eachother to heal one another, and concentrate on Magic and Defense, because they would focus on group survival.

The stats would be like:

Warrior (Solo)
Level 50
Strength: 85
Defense: 100
Magic: 20

Warrior (Group of 3W's)
Level 50
Strength: 55
Defense: 80
Magic: 35

The Solo Characters Defense would raise a lot more than the others because he took more hits, making him tougher. He would also need more physical strength to do more damage to make up for he single attack.

The Groupies wouldn't need as much Physical Strength because they would rely on each other for aid. As a group they would do more damage with a combined strength of 165. Their group defense would be 240 and combined magic would be 105. But alone they should be able to take on the Solo Player.

I wouldn't announce this in the Manual or any Online sites. But I just wouldn't understand that if I worked by myself, lifting weights, learning Statistics, why a group of people helping eachother lifting weights and each learning one part of Statistics would be Singularly as strong and intelligent as myself. Would you? Together they would be, but apart they wouldn't.

[a chewy rock]

When grouped you share EXP evenly among the players in the group. Say there's a group of 3 warriors and a solo warrior. They go and fight 3 enemies that give a total of 150 experience. The EXP is split and they each get 50 for each enemy. The solo warrior goes and fights the same 3 enemies. It takes him as long as it took the group to kill all 3 as it does for him to kill one. He gets all 150 EXP though; the same as each individual warrior. The group goes and kills two more groups of 3 enemies getting 300 more EXP each. The solo warrior killed the other 2 enemies in the first group in about the same time as it took the group of warriors to kill the other 2 groups. The solo guy got 300 from the other 2 enemies in the group making him end up with the same as each individual in the group of 3.

Something like that...

[Spartan]

True, but the Groupies wouldn't all be hit as much as the Solo. In groupies the Tank is usually the target while his two friends don't get hit. Why would their defense be as good? They havn't been hit. Their Cure/Protect/Buff abilities would be higher because they would use them so much on the Tank. I understand that they groupies have to fight more. It still doesn't make sense that a groupie (without his group) in PVP can kick a SOLO players butt left and right. I have seen Groupie player take down a Solo Player in PvP like the Solo was a freaking ant. WTH can a groupie take down a solo. The solo has taken more hits throughout his combat. So he should in turn have a naturally higher Defense. So why would someone who hasn't been hit nearly as much, be able to kick the solo's butt. The Solo would have faster reaction times with blocking and attacking because his enemies have a single target to attack, the Solo needs the ability to quickly react to his foes. The groupie(s) have friends that are Tanks to be attacked (But, the Tanks use spells and have friends buff them with magic) so the others in the party are untouched. The Tank would have a higher Defense, but not much because of the buffs. The Groupies rely on eachother for strength as a team, the Solo relies on him/her self. In MMOs the EXP earned isn't always distributed equally, it depends on the levels of the characters, sometimes the lower character gets more exp, sometimes the higher character gets more exp, its the devs decision to choose who gets more.

Chewy don't misunderstand me, I just don't understand how a Groupie who relies on 2 - 5 other people to help in combat can single handedly kick a complete SOLO Players butt. The groupie has never fought be himself other than in PvP, and can still handle a SOLO who only fights solo. I don't think its fair in most cases because sure the Groupie has to fight more monsters, but why can the groupie learn as much about combat as the Solo. Wouldn't the Groupie be a little slower, weaker than the SOLO.

[Will]

Don't ever expect the rewards from solo play to exceed the rewards from team-based play. Whether it be crafting, PvE, or PvP.

[a chewy rock]

I think all rewards should be the same regardless of how it's done unless it specifically says, "Do this and you get this in addition to to the regular reward."

Back to Spartan's point. I see what you're saying about the 1v1 between the solo player and the groupie. Why they get destroyed in a 1v1, I think, is because a solo player is usually is usually set up to stay alive with multiple enemies on him. I remember in Guild Wars how the solo people had to use spells that basically required lots of enemies to attack them for their spells to actually do anything worth doing.

[Mister Matt]

Ahhh, So Much Too Read!!!

[Will]

And why not. Bill Gates didn't get rich by sharing. LoL. JK.
Seriously though, why would a group raid give you better items. So if a person was forced to Solo a mission because no one wanted to Raid with him, if he/she defeated the same amount of minions + the boss, that person who took out everything, would get the same stuff as what 40 people did together, wheres the justice in that. Its like 1 soldier being forced to ambush a company of men, by himself, because everyone else didn't want to help him, and then only get "Good Job" heres your base pay. That tends to not happen, usually that lone soldier gets a "Perk" because he showed initiative, courage, and ability. Like a Distinguished Service Medal/Legion of Merit/Bronze-Silver-Gold Star/Medal of Honor.


Let's start with "Real life doesn't apply to video games". People play games to get away from real life, not to see how appropriately they can mimic it. If I want hyper reality to invade my game in all aspects, I'd go outside instead.


Will - your telling me, that even if I develop the skills to battle hordes by myself, I won't get as good or better items than a group of 40 people did, against the same level monsters, the same boss'. Why? Why would someone who soloed the quest, get worse items? Its like 40 Marines sweeping a building and 1 guy having to sweep the building by himself, the guy who does it by himself will be given a lot more respect when he comes out. Well whatever. Thats a turn off.


You won't be experiencing the same content. You will get better rewards in identical content by yourself, because you won't be splitting it. Raid content will be intended for 25 players, not 1. If you can find a legitimate way to conquer said content, more power to you (and I wouldn't be surprised to see that "legitimate way" be nerfed in the future, lol)



It was said the KW was going to be a WoW killer, well forcing Raids for "Better" items, kinda = WoW. The only difference would be, the graphics. Oh, and there are 3 sides to the story, like 99% of MMO's. You have to be Deva - Al'Gar - Human (For a Race, and then are forced to start in the HT of that race, sounds like WoW/FFXI/Last Chaos/Runescape/Anarchy Online/and every other MMO) and you don't really have a choice in how to progress the story. WTH is so new in KW. You can build a City, pretty good, but my brother got a game where you can do that, but there is a limit to how large the city can be, is there a limit in KW, probably. More than likely to save downtime, the "added" areas will be chosen through portals and dumbed into different locations. So you don't really see the buildings being built. People say that WoW is Non-Linear, but, you have to do certian quest to advance, where is the Non-Linear in that, you are forced to do a specific task. A game that is "Non-Linear" to its fullest is a game that has a "Free-Forming World" where there is a backstory, and the main characters are "Real Characters" and not NPC's. The Stories of peoples generosity in building Castles/Forts/Cities/Towns and fighting hundreds of creatures at a time, and people telling others, that is a Non-Linear game, because everyone would have there own way to "Win" the game by becoming famous. Thats why people play MMO's they want the "#1" spot. Leeroy Jenkins took WoW by Storm, and not many people have topped him yet. In BF2, people want to become Supreme Commander. Lineage, they want to become the best GM/PvP player. Archlord, everyone wants to be the Archlord.


We won't be forcing anything. That's exactly what I'm telling you. You're simply upset that you won't be the BEST without relying on another player at anytime. That's fairly selfish, is it not?



Why not have Solo quest and Raid Quests. So people who want to Raid can develope the story that way and the Solo people can develope it another way. Raiding is like watching the Superbowl, boring. Rugby is so much better. I really don't like parties in MMO's other than being me and my bro, because having someone you don't know as the Leader, tends to make you loose items/$$$ to the greedy. And the Leaders tend to leave in the middle of "your turn" for an item/quest and leave you low and soaked in monsters.



First of all, why in the world do you believe we wouldn't have seperate quests? That's fairly basic design.

It sounds like you've had some bad experiences, and there's nothing we can do about that, but I fail to recognize the purpose of playing an MMORPG by yourself. I have no sympathy for someone who is playing just to "pwnz" other people and make their e-peen larger. They're welcome to enjoy our game in whatever way they choose, but we most certainly won't be designing around them.


True Chewy, GW's had a lot of "Area Effect" Spells for the Solo players but I never understood why. There were 15 AE's for every Direct Attack. That made the game to bias to Party Modes, it almost force Solo players to play in Parties, and when your group leader is a ___________. The game loses its "fun" and becomes a turn off. Thats why I no longer play WoW,Lineage, EQ, GW, because they FORCE you to play in a party on time or another, no one should be forced to party up, if they don't want to party, then they should have an alternative to advancing the game. A game should be balanced with spells, so its not bias to how the game is played. Too many Area Effect Spells lead to weak Solo, where to many Direct Spells lead to weak Solo because the group of people will just PvP the Solo with DS's for easy PvP points. Why do the Solo's become so weak. Solo players should have the same fighting chance against a Horde as a Group has against a Horde.


What? This doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Make 1 player just as powerful as an entire group? Do you realize how stupid that sounds?


I think thats why I play FPS's so much, you actually get a "Team" that works together, no matter the goal, your team works truly together to win. Where in MMO's most of the time, a group just picks on another weaker group/person. In FPS's you just shoot anyone that gets in your way, regardless of who they are.


A couple of things here. First of all, FF exists in quite a few games, and having played at very high tournament level, playing in the way youv'e suggested won't get you very far. There's far more to FPS games than shooting what's on your screen, and we'll leave it at that.

I'm not sure why you're so concerned with unfair odds, especially considering that the majority of our concerns lie with you on that. We're just as tired of the imbalances, ganking and zerging that you are, we simply want a fair fight and fair game. We're with you on this, I promise. After Daoc and WoW, it's obvious that we're all hungry for some fair fights.


KW has been talked up by the Dev team to death, but, the community has yet to understand the Truly Revolutionary concepts behind KW. You guys talk the talk, but the walk, is lax. You refuse to show even new screenshots (hello, thats "basic" media) and no new pics, since about 6 months. Thats a long time for a media release of even screenshots. Calibermod had a problem with media releases 2 years ago, and lost 80% of the community, now the are back and showing atleat 1 Model/Map a month, finished or not, even the skin of a gun, and the community has there input, and the next month, changes that were suggested are voted on, and with 2 months a polished great looking map/object is shown. And guess what, it looks great, the game looks like a mod winner.

Suggesting that we should forego legal circumstances to please you personally is a bit egotistical =P

Hope I answered some concerns, but even though you feel like the solo player might've been given the shaft in the MMO realm, doesn't mean that giving him the advantage is the new answer. Let me leave you with a quote from Albert Einstein that's helping us figure our way.

The significant problems we have cannot be solved at the same level of thinking with which we created them.


PS: little tired so hope that made sense in some way!

[Damon]

The circumstances by which we will cannot show our media at this time is out of our control at the moment. Spartan your reference to that Mod is valid, yet we are not a mod. If you feel slighted or let down in anyway we are sorry for that feeling. If you need to come back in a month or two to see progress then you must. Right now we have an early community and as I said before your wait unfortunately will be the longest. The features and media you long for have become a large competitive edge for us in business. Also called the USP or Unique Selling Point. We are still on the market place therefore our USP's must remain intact to protect the IP from imitation.

If you thought you had the greatest invention in the world would you make a website and tell everyone how to do it first? I don't think you would. You would hold until all your ducks are in a row and all your backing is in place then you let lose the kraken!

[absolute_d]

I think the first thing Spartan is missing is that MMO stands for Massive MULTIPLAYER Online...if you want an MSO, try Oblivion. If you want to solo, why play an MMO? If all you need is to level and develop singularly...wouldn't any flashy super nifty large world RPG fit the bill? I think it would.

But to humor you, you have to look at where the base issue lies. Leveling up is done by experiance points given out as you defeat whatever animal/monster/mob you are up against. That does not measure anything other than your ability to dispense measurable justice on it. What solution you are looking for can happen, but I think we're a ways off still. Can you track all the things that happen to your character? How many times he swings his sword in a combat? How many times he hits with those swings? How hard he hit each time? Of coarse you can.

Now with that in mind...how do we make a scalable leveling system that allows us to SEE specific results? The fickle thing about the public is that they require some sort of credit for their work. This type of system would leave a serious hole in the instant gratification catagory. Tracking all those things leads to an immense amount of book keeping. Do you track each measured skill? If you look at the base example above, there's three basic things I noted, and that's just touching the surface of things that can and should be tracked in this type of proposed system, if you think about all the things that happen in armed combat or anything else in an MMO universe you should quickly realize the sheer amount of things that would need their own page file. Honestly I don't think your PC could handle a game that could do that, waaaay too much math. But say it's possible, getting back to people needing gratification. How do we show this? Does your STR just automatically increase? Do with stick with the same standard of an exp type system where you've now done the work to go from STR 7 to STR 8, click the + sign? Fable was a great start to this type of system, but look at the development time, the push backs and then look at the amount of play time we got with the game.

There's a fine line 'specially in the current digital age of what players want, and what they'll put up with and ultimately what will provide both of those and still make a profit. Business decisions are the ones that are made first. The one great thing about KW is that it's an independent piece of work, and you've got guys who are pouring heart and soul into not only producing an incredible game but making sure it gets done right. How many games have you seen in the past not make it to market? Think the developers gave up on them? Nope, the boys upstairs pulled the plug. Or how many get pushed back and pushed back and pushed back only to come out and suck beyond belief? Can anyone say Anachronox? Personally I think Romero is the last person to be talking about wether or not something can be done, and if I were Damon, I'd be hugely insulted by anyone who asked his opinion of what I was doing...they could have at least gone to someone who's actually had multiple market successes, but that's another story.

Back to the topic at hand. I would tend to agree that MMO's should reward players for banding together and marching forward to make a change. There's a reason any great epic has multiple supporting cast members, no one can go it alone, hell even Conan had help in aquiring his crown. In a game full of live people, no one person can be all powerfull...and if you think so, do a quick google search on the assassination of Lord British. ;)


D

[absolute_d]

The circumstances by which we will cannot show our media at this time is out of our control at the moment. Spartan your reference to that Mod is valid, yet we are not a mod. If you feel slighted or let down in anyway we are sorry for that feeling. If you need to come back in a month or two to see progress then you must. Right now we have an early community and as I said before your wait unfortunately will be the longest. The features and media you long for have become a large competitive edge for us in business. Also called the USP or Unique Selling Point. We are still on the market place therefore our USP's must remain intact to protect the IP from imitation.

If you thought you had the greatest invention in the world would you make a website and tell everyone how to do it first? I don't think you would. You would hold until all your ducks are in a row and all your backing is in place then you let lose the kraken!

And it surely is excellent to see the Cpt of the ship dropping down decks to check on use mechanics from time to time. Don't ever stop doing this Damon, it's what will seperate you from everyone else.


D

[a chewy rock]

WOW! I just read a crap load of nonsense that all started with Spartan's ranting on how unrevolutionary Kaos War will be. I don't understand how he could say anything negative about the content which isn't even released yet. he complains about how no new content has been released in however long it's been then he talks about how they don't show any "Truly Revolutionary" concepts. How can it be shown when it's not out? Spartan, you should be ashamed of your posts sicne you acted like such a jerk in that post.
I've got to go for tonight. I'll be back tomorrow to share my thoughts on the soloing and stuff.

[Spartan]

Chewy, I have seen/played so many MMOs, that I bet no matter what comes out of KW, I have seen it before, in a lesser grade or whatnaught, I have probably seen it. I spent most of my life gaming, so when somebody says revolutionary, I say "to whom."

I have yet to see a MMO with 3 main factions that a player can join, and other misc factions to join. Like joining just a normal little town. Getting to choose a starting point other than the Main Capitals, why not be allowed to start in a small town. Technically, if you join a faction, it doesn't mean that you were born in the Capital.

I am sorry for being mean. I promise I will refrain from bashing KW. I just want a little something. A screen shot of a foot would be freaking spectacular right now. Its not my place to bash KW, I am not a ESRB Rating Jokie. I think I will now bash Chewy. lol.

I will make up for my bashings. I will say something nice. I am now 19. And KW is 1 more day towards completion. I may even post an ugly picture of a Town later. (Hint: Doesn't mean it will be pretty)

PS: I deleted my other posts. I wasn't told to. Its just a nice thing to do after all the venting.

I still think that Solo ing is needed for those people who have Dial up and cant play an MMO Online.

[absolute_d]

I will second the idea of being able to choose a starting location. Any town in your factions territory would be great. That's a solid idea Spartan.


D

[Spartan]

+1

Spartan: 1
Damon: 150937038379284629194376289463836726484656382367

lolz. I will try to draw and scan a "KW" town, for the Deva. In my mind it looks really really good, but I suck (a fetus can draw better than me) and have no coloring abilities.

[a chewy rock]

I agree with the starting town idea. You should be able to choose any town you want to start if it's affiliated with the faction that you selected.
And as far as the soloing goes, I think that if you solo then fine, but you shouldn't gain any advantages over other players. For crying out loud, it's a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE game. Each word in that says enough alone. Massive meaning lots of others to play with. Multiplayer meaning playing with others. And Online meaning, well, DON'T USE DIAL-UP. Anything related to the internet sucks with Dial-up.
I haven't thought about it, but I should do some fan art type things.

[Spartan]

Chewy, "Don't Use Dial-Up", for some people, Dial Up is what they can afford. I can barely pay for the connection I have now, and soon I may have to get a slower connection.

[absolute_d]

Chewy, "Don't Use Dial-Up", for some people, Dial Up is what they can afford. I can barely pay for the connection I have now, and soon I may have to get a slower connection.


How then would you pay for a monthly MMO fee? Not to be an ass, but if you can't pay for the net connection, I don't think the monthly MMO fee should be at the top of the priorities list.


D

[a chewy rock]

I'm not the richest guy either. I know what it's like not having a lot of stuff. I have about 20 channels (spelling?) on my TV, crappy computers, and all sorts of other stuff. What do you use?

[Spartan]

My PC is from 1999 and can only use a AGP 4x Graphic Card.
My mom/stepdad have Satellite (I only watch 5 - 6 shows a week)
Internet Connection through Bellsouth (Supposed to be fast, but its super slow)
I don't have anything to my name (rightfully) except my clothes.

Well, to solve the Fee Problem, why not only charge players that want to play in the MMO standpoint. In the MMO there are more items/quests/creatures/features, while in the Solo, you get the gist of the storyline and basic gameplay.

[a chewy rock]

I doubt we'll be seeing and MMO with a stand alone solo version of the game.
And I have DSL. Not that bad.

[Spartan]

We have the DSL Extreme 6.0
Its still laggy because the servers in GA suck. I sometimes go to a bar in South ATL thats has a T1 line just to be able to get a solid connection.

[a chewy rock]

Oh, my connection is fine.

[Spartan]

Do you live in ATL. There are so many business' around here that use DSL for like 200 - 300 people, instead of getting a T1. So the DSL lines in ATL are for crap.

[a chewy rock]

No, I'm not even in that state.

[Spartan]

No, I'm not even in that state.


Lucky :'(:'(:'(

[Varacolaci]

Will, I agree with you in everything you said. I can see how worry you are about making afair game for everyone, that's something hard to do and that's why noone has ever done it. So I'll bet you will do this game as fair as you can but you'll do some modifications afther the release 'cos people do what anyone can ever guess that's somethign everyone knows.

And if I can share my little opinion to this thead I would like to be able to "level" (don't knwo another word to exprese this, i know there are not levels in KW) even if I like to party (i'm not the party guy) or alone. Not better chances to get anything and I can understand that a gruop can do things easier and faster but pls have mercy of the lone wolfs as myself and don't make the game the way all MMO's are that "makes" you party with random assholes just because u was slower or faster than ur buddyes.

[a chewy rock]

Please don't force partying. I don't think any good can come from that.

[Ziegler]

I am now 19.
That explains much.

I still think that Solo ing is needed for those people who have Dial up and cant play an MMO Online.



Dialup and cant play an MMO online?!?!?

I think that people without eyes should be able to see too.....isnt going to happen this side of Jesus though.

[Ziegler]

Also, considering that there is an internet backbone in Atl, and I live in a remote town in TN and get fine connections speeds. I think it is more likely something on your computer.

Also, is this the same computer you are complaining about in the other thread, of not running Win XP or having that mouse issue on?

[Spartan]

No, I am on my Mac. the XP is upstairs. I think its where I live in ATL.

I am 19 and I grew up Overseas in saudi arabia for 13 years. sometimes I think that the US is the worst country in the world. I have my opinions like everyone else Zieg. You like windows, I like Mac.

People without eyes can see. They can touch. That allows them to "see" the object. I have a blind friend that can draw what he feels almost perfectly.

[Avacon]

Ok i know no one has posted on this one in a long time now so i might as well it does say skill trees so i had an idea on a specific skill
Skill name: Collision
Use : two weapons of melee or range
Description: Two weapons of choice collided together for X amount of time
to form a single weapon


Basicly take to melee swords for instance. have a scimitar and a regular sword that have there own uniqe abilities and then activate collision and it combines them into a single blade of destructive power. combining the abilities of both into one for a set period of time. basicly if you have a hard to kill player and/or npc and u just need the extra boost in abilities use the skill to help make a mark or cut them down.:)

[jimmy6154]

I remember the warrior epic in EQ long ago could transform between 2h and 1h which was cool.

[Avacon]

Thats what i was thinking about but picture being able to mold to types of weapons of each diffrent race like 2 melle single handers , 2 range weapons. The posibillities would be endless hopefully it will acor but thats a big addon for the simple fact of wondering what each weapon would look like molded together. That in itself is heafty inmagination skills. .... Just thinking about it hurts my puny brain lol

[jimmy6154]

I just like to see big ass weapon graphics in hand.... you know what they say about the size of your weapon....;D;D:o:o

[Rauko]

...That it is directly proportionate to the smallness of your brain? 8)

Sorry, giant weapons just look silly. Please don't make this game cartoonish and korean...

[Avacon]

...That it is directly proportionate to the smallness of your brain? 8)

Sorry, giant weapons just look silly. Please don't make this game cartoonish and korean...
nine out of ten nomatter what they do or don't put in this game it will look the best to be seen in a long time.

[jimmy6154]

...That it is directly proportionate to the smallness of your brain? 8)



man what is it with people around here... this is the second Digg I've been dealt on this forum... yet I again refrain because its generally pointless.

If your trying to push a button.. mission accomplished. If your trying to be rude... thats accomplished as well. I may be a bit sensitive but my comment was a joke and no way needed a flame implying that I'm dumb.

No idea why people around here got sticks up their butt but I gotta say for me rude people just turn me off and I hope its an ongoing trend.

[Rauko]

lol I'm sorry, man. I am the least "sticks up their butt" person here probably.
Which is most likely why I got taken wrong. I apologize for that.
Truth is I know yours was joke, and mine was following in turn.

"You know what they say about pepole with big weapon...
...<insert funny comeback that twists it back on you>"

Understand?
It was meant simply as a joke. I mean the way you made your post it was hardly a serious ending using a cliche phrase like that with 4 emotes on the end :P

However, I do admit that behind the joke was my actual opinion on the matter. Which is what the 2nd half of my post was about. I moved from joke, to my actual stance. From joking to serious.

If you want to take issue with my stand on cartoonish/korean weapon styles then that is fine, but really, I was just following your post in kind and spirit.

[jimmy6154]

no worries at all, thanks for the explanation...

[reddo]

If the game were to become more realistic in terms of weaponry, rauko, everyone would be using m4's and Rockets. I can't imagine the "Angels" with a nuclear device.

[Avacon]

sadly i can imagine an angel coming onto the battle field with the power of the sun and life while the demon comes onto the battle field with the power of death an destruction both clashing blows at the other pounding each other into the ground with humans firing onto both sides and getting forced into the center then when all hope for the humans start to fail they bring out the pocket sized mother of all bombs to wipe all their enemy off the face of the earth or which ever planet they one at the time. ah the love for the bloodshed it always in the warriors heart

[MESS14H]

the beast lays into the rookie's Squadmates clawing them to pices with every brutal strike while he emptyed his fourth and final clip into it. Reolising how futile this is he reach's for the rocket lancher on his back disreguarding the possible dagener to his friends, he aim's and fire's at the beast. His vision is filled with an eruption of fire as he stand's wide eyed at the scene before Him with anticipation only to see the shadowy form of the beast emerging from the flames unscathed, He stands frozen to the spot with fear and loss of hope as the beast aprotches with demonic speed but then turnes to see a man comes up beside Him in a long Trentch coat and a brimed hat. The Man rases his arm holing a simple revolver that looks like it should be in a museum and fires. The beast faulters then falls to its knees before crumpling to the ground and erupting in strange blue flames.
"H' Howd you? " the rookie ask the man
"Magic Bullets my friend, Magic bullets" the man replys whilst walking away back into the fog.

[Spartan]

I just want to be a Human, with Technology.

[Mister Matt]

Same with m-whoa! Spartan is back! Where have you been?

[Spartan]

I am an ASM at a gas station pulling 60+ hour weeks, along with 15 hours at gamestop. I love that second job for one reason....I forgot what it was already. :(

On a serious note though, I dropped out of the online community life-style for a while and will do my best to start putting in my 2 cents, maybe 1 cent, depending on the week from now on.

I hope Damon has been treating you all to some fun stuff, I will soon.


Mister Matt is the man.

PS: He is, because...well, he just is.

[linxcat]

Why not need 2 skills to do something. 90% of jobs in the world require that you have more than one skill. If your good at making Glass Works, you also need to have a skill in Business to sell those goods, you wont be able to sell something buy just going up to random people saying "I made this, buy it" you need a Store to lure people into your "studio" to look at your different peices or work, so they get to look at what you have made.


Oh, I came up with a great idea on how to incorporate 'Player Created Content" without using a 3rd Party out of game feature. If any of you have seen the game "Spore", you can create your own creatures. Why not allow a blacksmith to use something like that, have Long Blades, Short Blade, Curved L/S blades, Full Tang, Partial Tang, Alloys, Metals, Color, Length of Blade, Grip, Pommel, Guards, Edge, Blood Groove, etc. And having the ability to minipulate the design using Poly Points, would be AWSOME. People could literally spend hours making there own unique swords / weapons / armor. Even weapons / armor for creatures. Having that feature would allow for hundreds of thousands of differents swords.

Then they could take that weapon / armor to a wizard/mage class and have the weapon acquire magical elements/spells.

Weapons could be given names to its unique feature by the creator.

Its a huge engine to implement, but it will definetly out-do WoW. Wow breached the 8 million mark with the Burning Crusade expansion.

If a game had Player Created content that was ingame, there would be no need for updates, the players would update the game themselves, besides the bugs/glitches. the devs wouldn't need to create new content other than races/areas.

Thats what I think would destroy WoW, because WoW needs to pic up the pace with content.

You may be able to acquire the engine from the Spore Team, and modify it to create weapons/armor along with the buildings/creatures like in spore.
That is Probably the Single most greatest idea I've Ever Heard for a game!!! Yes!!

[MESS14H]

Aie yes i like the idea of having multiple skills unlock different abilitys,
for instance you could have the robotics skill up to a certain lvl and the human biology skill upto a certain lvl and it revieals the cybanetics skill tree,
or combine anotomy with those dagger skills to inflick damage where it, well, do'se the most dmg.
;D

[linxcat]

No i Meant that making your own weapons from a stick is the greatest idea ever, like on spore. (see quote text)

[Damon]

Great stuff!

[MESS14H]

No i Meant that making your own weapons from a stick is the greatest idea ever, like on spore. (see quote text)
well thats kinda what i was responing too
Having a myriad of skills to persue would bring each players own aproche to the game. not just in crafting but adveturing/pvp/raiding you name it.
having the abitlity to create your own brand of sword/armor/stink bombs or whatever is deffinately a way to keep the in game econemy alive without the devs having to pump out now ones with every update thay bring out allthough its nice to beable to add something different to your designs every now n then.
even spore has its new parts now n then ;D

[Ronin]

A dedicated crafter, using a crafting setup similar to the "quoted" one above, could add his/her own "signature" to it. The signature could be a glyph or a specific pommel or some other design attached to the weapon or armor made. Following that train of thought another thing came to me...its rather clumsy with the dualshocks the Playstation uses however in Armored Core players can create their own emblems to place on the let shoulder of their mechs. A similar feature could be added to give a more personal touch to player generated items. Rather than WoW's <made by whazzername> it would have a specific symbol or design that could be guild oreinted or player specific. And this is just the the tip of the proverbial iceberg, however I am cutting myself off now for the sake of brevity.


and speaking of proverbs:
"Rather three days without food than a day without tea"
well its more of a saying than a proverb really.;D

[Spartan]

The Armored Core system is easy to fix, go plug in you mouse and keyboard. :)

The Crafting engine could be dedicated to individual servers so that not every server had the same content.

[Nurvus]

More content should always be added.

Creating a feature that makes adding content obsolete should not be an option, unless the developpers are willing to change that feature against the community's will.

For example, Blacksmithing: At first, you might only be able to work with Copper.
Copper is not very strong, certain structures wouldn't hold it, and therefore not all kinds of weapons and armorrs work out from it.

But copper can be researched into stronger alloys allowing it to be forged into more effective structures, such as smallers, thinner blades for the most agile warriors, or some other exquisite - but nonetheless lethal - designs.

New content can be in the form of new materials that are key to researching certain alloys, or even brand new metals.

As for variety of alloys - beyond simple strength - some alloys might be more towards enchanteability, others more towards durability, others stronger.
The strongest might be the best for a sharpened edge - for the best slashing/piercing weapons.

New sources of energy to create engines for guns and vehicles.
New cloth/leather/scale/mail-works that are more effective.

The crafting system can be incredibly deep even without the suggestion you just pointed out.

Also, I think designing the blade should be different from designing the hilt, pommel, the sockets for the gems, the gems, any runes or glyphs inscribed in the weapon, whether that armor has spikes and blades to hurt the aggressors or is smooth and slick to avoid direct blows.

[Spartan]

That is an interesting feature. Different metals do have different uses. That would be a nice feature.

I was also thinking about being able to cross-smith weapons. A blacksmith makes swords while a carpenter makes furniture and bows (wood). Sub-Specializing into a carpenter from blacksmith would allow you to incorporate metal into Bow-making. Allowing you to create a bow with "Dagger" wings, so that you can slice/hack for close quarters combat.

[MESS14H]

I was also thinking about being able to cross-smith weapons. A blacksmith makes swords while a carpenter makes furniture and bows (wood). Sub-Specializing into a carpenter from blacksmith would allow you to incorporate metal into Bow-making. Allowing you to create a bow with "Dagger" wings, so that you can slice/hack for close quarters combat.

Or even Crossbows, or combine them both with architeture to make seige equipment

[Spartan]

Sweetness, EPIC Campaign for Kaos War Domination!!!

Just wondering... If this game addicts me like WoW has addicted so many millions of (sorry if you are one) people, will SRI be willing to help out with my bill/food/water money?

[MESS14H]

Or even Crossbows, or combine them both with architeture to make seige equipment
Bearing in mind this is going to be a more futaristic style game the case would be more like combining physics chemistry and engineering to make an atilary cannon

[Spartan]

Energy/Physics + Blacksmithing = Energy Rifles/Blades

Metallurgy + Blacksmithing = Reinforced Armor

Reinforced Armor + Energy/Physics = Energy Shields