What I'd like to see included in races

[kissakisagari]

I'll tell you, one of the things that attracts me most to mmos is whether or not they have a good variety of character creation. So far as I see, we have three races... has the idea of subraces been considered? Perhaps from different walks of life that make them excel at certain tasks... perhaps they have a cultural affinity for one sort of study or another (thinking on the dark side of the fence, a subrace that excels at the decay of things, another that specializes in seductions and charms)... this could also give you a bit more variety in the starting look of your character, opening up certain options specific to that subrace. Just throwing it out there... variety is the spic of life, and all.

[Eric_Woll]

There are three playable races at the moment. We have not gone into great detail about the other creatures that inhabit the world of Kaos War, so before you get too concerned that all you're going to see is humans and deva and al'gar guys running around just keep in mind that there is much more in store. Unlike most games you read about, you're coming upon Kaos War in its earliest infancy. Information is really tight right now and it will probably remain that way for a LONG time. :-p

[Paladin]

I'm just going to voice my opinion for weight and height sliders again ^_^

[Stiler]

I hope with a skill system you infact don't relaly have a need for that kind of thing.

IMO That ends up making things less diverse, not more.

You end up with "race = best race for x type of a character" and generally anyone who wants to be that type of character either has to pick that race and be like everyone else or pick another one and be gimped.

Rather what would be bad about having the races be more open and not so restricted?

Give them starting bonuses? sure, but in the end allow most people to be able to be good at whatever they wish to.

IE - In usual mmo's , Orcs = good warriors, Elves = good magic users, etc.

Instead of that let people pick a race and then focus on what they want to focus on instead of making them be led down the stereotypical path of their race.

Look at Humans for instance. Do you see Humans only being good at one thing or such? No, they can be good at many different things. It simply depends more on what you learn and what you wish to learn.

[a chewy rock]

The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion and the ones before it do that very well. There are, I believe 10 races, all very different. They each have starting bonuses based on their physical features but they are not at all limited to playing the type of character that is specified by their skill bonuses.

If you would like to use a sword then pick up a sword (longsword, claymore, dagger, and shortswords fall into this category)and practice hitting things.

Or, if you'd rather crush in some skulls, you can pick up a blunt weapon (warhammers, axes, battle-axes, and maces all fall in this category).

And, if you'd like to stay away from your enemy, you can pick up a bow and some arrows to loose at your enemies from a distance.

Then there is the magic:
1. Conjuration - Summon all sorts of creatures
2. Destruction - Blows stuff up or whatever you like (the elemental stuff)
3. Restoration - Heals and buffs
4. Mysticism - Can't seem to remember...
5. Alchemy - Not really "magic" but it's the one for making potions and identifying herbs and stuff
6. Illusion - For stealthy people
7. Alteration - Alters your characters abilities (water walking and levitation which was taken out of Oblivion....)

With all the choices you can pick your race and decide to play however you want and rise to any degree of skill in the skill you choose to play by. Of course you can mix and match, too. It would just be dumb if your character couldn't start swinging a sword around if you decided to shoot fireballs in the beginning of the game.

I know this game isn't an MMO, it doesn't even have any multiplayer, but...... the way the skills work and character development works is very good.

[Damon]

I can't go into specifics guys. But what we are working on right now for skills will blow your mind, and is revolutionary for an MMO. It is just awesome. Right now we are working on specs. I would let the cat out of the bag but we are very careful about what we release, showing our hand before everyone else. I swear you will have so much fun with our skills. It is almost a game in itself. As you progress and become more powerful there are certain paths you can take. Our system is very fluid. Thank you for the input everyone it is really helping us hone in on the deficiencies of other systems while enhancing ours. We really appreciate it. ;D

[Moloch]

As you progress and become more powerful there are certain paths you can take. Our system is very fluid.

Hopefully you'll make these choices reversible. Some specs work for levelling, some for raiding, and some for PvP. Respeccing ftw.

[a chewy rock]

Respeccing isn't too realistic. You couldn't, let's say, be a good swordsman when you have a melee fight and then, knowing you will have a fight where you would do better off with a gun later, lower your skill in swordsmanship and raise your ranging skill.
Be good at swordsmanship and train in ranging and get good at both. Don't switch back and forth.

[Moloch]

Respeccing isn't too realistic.

Sorry, rock - I have difficulty accepting any comment about "realism" given the KW setting and backstory ;)

Respeccing is a must for a modern MMOG. The Devs balance and patch, changing skills, weapon & equipment stats and the like. Not to allow respeccing is to punish players unfairly when these decisions are made. Moreover, players choose skills / specialisations etc as they develop - ie. when they have incomplete info about how good, balanced or gimped they are, if they're PvE or PvP suited etc etc.

IMO respeccing is a positive game mechanic that adds considerably to the vast majority of the population - casual and hardcore alike.

[Stiler]

Respeccing isn't too realistic. You couldn't, let's say, be a good swordsman when you have a melee fight and then, knowing you will have a fight where you would do better off with a gun later, lower your skill in swordsmanship and raise your ranging skill.
Be good at swordsmanship and train in ranging and get good at both. Don't switch back and forth.


How's it not realistic?

You're telling me that someone who studies one thing can then not choose to study something else???

Respecing on-the-fly (which is what I believe you're specifically talking about) isn't realistic, nor balanced either.

However being able to respec by doing it like UO did it, where you basically have to actually learn your new skill and have to gain the EXP/use it to get good at it makes sense.

You simply took the skill you no longer wished to know/learn and ticked it down. Then as you used the other skill it filtered the xp you gained into the skill from the other one. It wasn't "instant" and it worked just the same as if you were actually learning it as any other person would.

This also helps keep instant re-specs from just switching instantly to the flavor of the month build, because by the time you re-spec and get full into that skill it's likely somethings changed/been patched.

[a chewy rock]

Respeccing isn't too realistic. You couldn't, let's say, be a good swordsman when you have a melee fight and then, knowing you will have a fight where you would do better off with a gun later, lower your skill in swordsmanship and raise your ranging skill.
Be good at swordsmanship and train in ranging and get good at both. Don't switch back and forth.


How's it not realistic?

You're telling me that someone who studies one thing can then not choose to study something else???

Respecing on-the-fly (which is what I believe you're specifically talking about) isn't realistic, nor balanced either.


I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to learn something else once you've already learned one thing. I'm saying that you should be able to. But not lower one to raise a skill that you have never even used. If you want to get a skill up you should go train it, not lower another to raise the one you've never used.

Hope that maybe cleared some stuff up. I think I worded my first post badly.

And to Moloch: I probably should have used a different word than "realistic" in my first post. "Fair" maybe.

[Stiler]

Respeccing isn't too realistic. You couldn't, let's say, be a good swordsman when you have a melee fight and then, knowing you will have a fight where you would do better off with a gun later, lower your skill in swordsmanship and raise your ranging skill.
Be good at swordsmanship and train in ranging and get good at both. Don't switch back and forth.


How's it not realistic?

You're telling me that someone who studies one thing can then not choose to study something else???

Respecing on-the-fly (which is what I believe you're specifically talking about) isn't realistic, nor balanced either.


I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to learn something else once you've already learned one thing. I'm saying that you should be able to. But not lower one to raise a skill that you have never even used. If you want to get a skill up you should go train it, not lower another to raise the one you've never used.

Hope that maybe cleared some stuff up. I think I worded my first post badly.

And to Moloch: I probably should have used a different word than "realistic" in my first post. "Fair" maybe.


I'm saying at the end-cap, when you've learned all that you can and can no longer learn anything, you don't think a player should be able to learn something else and be able to drop another skill that they might no longer like/want?

It shouldn't be instant or anything. You simply would allow the character to learn his new skill as anyone normally would, taking the same exp, etc to raise as normally. However you are basically allowing them to respec by taking the skill cap and letting them take it off one skill and then place it onto another.

[a chewy rock]

Respeccing isn't too realistic. You couldn't, let's say, be a good swordsman when you have a melee fight and then, knowing you will have a fight where you would do better off with a gun later, lower your skill in swordsmanship and raise your ranging skill.
Be good at swordsmanship and train in ranging and get good at both. Don't switch back and forth.


How's it not realistic?

You're telling me that someone who studies one thing can then not choose to study something else???

Respecing on-the-fly (which is what I believe you're specifically talking about) isn't realistic, nor balanced either.


I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to learn something else once you've already learned one thing. I'm saying that you should be able to. But not lower one to raise a skill that you have never even used. If you want to get a skill up you should go train it, not lower another to raise the one you've never used.

Hope that maybe cleared some stuff up. I think I worded my first post badly.

And to Moloch: I probably should have used a different word than "realistic" in my first post. "Fair" maybe.


I'm saying at the end-cap, when you've learned all that you can and can no longer learn anything, you don't think a player should be able to learn something else and be able to drop another skill that they might no longer like/want?

It shouldn't be instant or anything. You simply would allow the character to learn his new skill as anyone normally would, taking the same exp, etc to raise as normally. However you are basically allowing them to respec by taking the skill cap and letting them take it off one skill and then place it onto another.




I don't like the idea of lowering one skill from, let's say, level 30 or something to 0 and putting those 30 levels of experience into a different skill and raising it from 0 to 30 instantly without ever using that skill you just raised.

I'm not exactly sure how to word what I'm thinking in my head, as you've observed, so I can't explain well what my thoughts are.

p.s. This is a lot of quotes.

[Stiler]

Respeccing isn't too realistic. You couldn't, let's say, be a good swordsman when you have a melee fight and then, knowing you will have a fight where you would do better off with a gun later, lower your skill in swordsmanship and raise your ranging skill.
Be good at swordsmanship and train in ranging and get good at both. Don't switch back and forth.


How's it not realistic?

You're telling me that someone who studies one thing can then not choose to study something else???

Respecing on-the-fly (which is what I believe you're specifically talking about) isn't realistic, nor balanced either.


I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to learn something else once you've already learned one thing. I'm saying that you should be able to. But not lower one to raise a skill that you have never even used. If you want to get a skill up you should go train it, not lower another to raise the one you've never used.

Hope that maybe cleared some stuff up. I think I worded my first post badly.

And to Moloch: I probably should have used a different word than "realistic" in my first post. "Fair" maybe.


I'm saying at the end-cap, when you've learned all that you can and can no longer learn anything, you don't think a player should be able to learn something else and be able to drop another skill that they might no longer like/want?

It shouldn't be instant or anything. You simply would allow the character to learn his new skill as anyone normally would, taking the same exp, etc to raise as normally. However you are basically allowing them to respec by taking the skill cap and letting them take it off one skill and then place it onto another.




I don't like the idea of lowering one skill from, let's say, level 30 or something to 0 and putting those 30 levels of experience into a different skill and raising it from 0 to 30 instantly without ever using that skill you just raised.

I'm not exactly sure how to word what I'm thinking in my head, as you've observed, so I can't explain well what my thoughts are.

p.s. This is a lot of quotes.


lol, it is :p.

I agree with you about not being able to do it instantly.

However I think you should be able to take another skill and set it to unlearn, and then as you gain XP (as anoyne normally would in whatever skill you choose) the xp you gain goes into your new skill and drains from the one you no longer wish to use.

It allows people to respec to whatever skill they choose but it is not instant or free, you aren't able to transfer exp from one skill to the other, you are merely allowing the player to learn a skill like normal but at the cost of lowering another skill, so they aren't "locked" into any skill if they decide that they no longer wish it.

IE -

Lets say you are able to max out 3 skill area's.

Out of six skills:

Hunting
Swordsmanship
Mining
Magic
Archery
Crafting

You choose to max out your Hunting, Magic, and crafting skills. Then you are at the end cap and have no more skill points to learn anything from.

Now you end up deciding that magic isn't really your thing/not what you want to do. So you decide to drop it and take up Archery.

You would choose to drop magic. Then you take up a bow and start to use it. You would gain the EXP with the bow like any other person would, it wouldn't be instant from Magic>archery. It would only put exp into archery as you actually use it, like a lv 1 character just starting out and gaining skill as you go.

However since you were at the end cap and had no exp, it takes the EXP that you gain from using the bow from your magic knowledge instead, and filters it into the archery skillset.

I hope that's clear now :).

[Mister Matt]

what is respeccing exactly? sorry, I=n00b

[Stiler]

what is respeccing exactly? sorry, I=n00b


Respecing is when you take one skill set of your avatar and then "unlearn" that skill and learn another one in the previous skills place.

[a chewy rock]

Respeccing isn't too realistic. You couldn't, let's say, be a good swordsman when you have a melee fight and then, knowing you will have a fight where you would do better off with a gun later, lower your skill in swordsmanship and raise your ranging skill.
Be good at swordsmanship and train in ranging and get good at both. Don't switch back and forth.


How's it not realistic?

You're telling me that someone who studies one thing can then not choose to study something else???

Respecing on-the-fly (which is what I believe you're specifically talking about) isn't realistic, nor balanced either.


I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to learn something else once you've already learned one thing. I'm saying that you should be able to. But not lower one to raise a skill that you have never even used. If you want to get a skill up you should go train it, not lower another to raise the one you've never used.

Hope that maybe cleared some stuff up. I think I worded my first post badly.

And to Moloch: I probably should have used a different word than "realistic" in my first post. "Fair" maybe.


I'm saying at the end-cap, when you've learned all that you can and can no longer learn anything, you don't think a player should be able to learn something else and be able to drop another skill that they might no longer like/want?

It shouldn't be instant or anything. You simply would allow the character to learn his new skill as anyone normally would, taking the same exp, etc to raise as normally. However you are basically allowing them to respec by taking the skill cap and letting them take it off one skill and then place it onto another.




I don't like the idea of lowering one skill from, let's say, level 30 or something to 0 and putting those 30 levels of experience into a different skill and raising it from 0 to 30 instantly without ever using that skill you just raised.

I'm not exactly sure how to word what I'm thinking in my head, as you've observed, so I can't explain well what my thoughts are.

p.s. This is a lot of quotes.


lol, it is :p.

I agree with you about not being able to do it instantly.

However I think you should be able to take another skill and set it to unlearn, and then as you gain XP (as anoyne normally would in whatever skill you choose) the xp you gain goes into your new skill and drains from the one you no longer wish to use.

It allows people to respec to whatever skill they choose but it is not instant or free, you aren't able to transfer exp from one skill to the other, you are merely allowing the player to learn a skill like normal but at the cost of lowering another skill, so they aren't "locked" into any skill if they decide that they no longer wish it.

IE -

Lets say you are able to max out 3 skill area's.

Out of six skills:

Hunting
Swordsmanship
Mining
Magic
Archery
Crafting

You choose to max out your Hunting, Magic, and crafting skills. Then you are at the end cap and have no more skill points to learn anything from.

Now you end up deciding that magic isn't really your thing/not what you want to do. So you decide to drop it and take up Archery.

You would choose to drop magic. Then you take up a bow and start to use it. You would gain the EXP with the bow like any other person would, it wouldn't be instant from Magic>archery. It would only put exp into archery as you actually use it, like a lv 1 character just starting out and gaining skill as you go.

However since you were at the end cap and had no exp, it takes the EXP that you gain from using the bow from your magic knowledge instead, and filters it into the archery skillset.

I hope that's clear now :).


Ok, please don't quote this again.

All that sounds good, because you actually have to work in order to raise your newly wanted skill.