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Nurvus
03-23-2009, 02:43 PM
In my view, Slashing, Piercing and Crushing/Bludgeoning are 3 different combat concepts.

Swords, Axes, Daggers and Polearms can Slash.
Swords, Daggers and Polearms can Pierce.
Maces, Staves can Crush.

This is the main ideology, so to speak, since there can be exceptions like Spiked Maces that can Crush and Pierce to a degree, and so forth.

Using comparisons to make myself clear:

Taking WoW's Warrior as an example, Rend (a bleeding cut) would not work with a Mace or Staff.
Slam wouldn't work well with anything other than a Mace, Staff.

Mortal Wound and Deep Wound effects (Arms Talent) would likely not work with Maces or Staves, but Trauma (same tree) would only work with those.

Don't bother going into details, this is a raw concept.
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Essentially, I'd like to see wide skill trees, maybe 6 collumns each, where you have several chained skills that belong to the same concept (slashing vs crushing vs piercing) or weapon type (sword vs axe vs mace vs polearm vs scythe vs dagger vs ...)

Taking WoW's lack of variety within a class as an example, I'll make a comparison:

Mages:
Let's consider Fire as Burning and Explosive effects; Frost as piercing Cold and Freezing effects.
We could then see Burning and Explosive (Infernal), Burning and Cold (Thermal), Explosive and Freezing (Shatter), Cold and Freezing (Glacial) combos.

More than just more skils or less skills, Talent/Skill trees should define gameplay Concepts, and radically so.

Hunters:
* Being able to decide whether they want to focus on fighting from afar, using their pet as "tank", or alongside the pet in melee, being able to learn skills to that effect.
* Being able to use a more bestial combat style in melee.
* Being able to tame a powerful pet (i.e: Bear) or several weaker pets (i.e: Wolf pack).
* Being able to focus on:
- Bows wich I think should have a cast time style, being able to use wichever kind of Arrows (with various effects) you want in any given shot.
Bows should get some contribution from Strength to the damage they do.
- Guns wich I think should fire instantly with cooldown (reload), with penalty to hit if you shoot while moving. Each reload would grant X shots with a certain effect, depending on ammo.
- Crossbows wich would fire instantly like Guns, but with Bow ammo.

In WoW, that would mean a redesign of Beastmastery to accomodate melee and ranged combat orientations separately, and the taming of a variety of pets; Survival to accomodate skills that support the interactive use of Traps while fighting in melee and ranged separately; and Marksmanship to accomodate skills that allow focusing on Gun, Crossbow and Bow separately as well as providing the most pure and vulnerable ranged combat options.
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So above all I'd like to see each concept in the game explored in fullest, not bleak implementations.

MESS14H
03-24-2009, 02:14 PM
With the human race being mostly dependant on its tech, they sould have a huge range of (craftable) ammo for all the different types of rifles, grenade and rocket lanchers, lazer cannons and shotguns ect.
Ammo could include things like emp, frag, and flash grenades, Armor Piercing, sonic/concusion, Incendiary, acid, and Poison rounds ect.

One thing that could be implamented with mele weapons is the chance of harming yourself with a weapon if you are vastly unskilled in its use. (ive got scars allover were ive had the odd slip up with my katana and you dont learn how to use nun chucks without bruses on your elbows.) This would effectivly give a weapon a skill cap preventing overpowerd twinking.
Enevitably some players will take the risk though. Remember the poision resist skill in Ultima Online for instance.

You metioned a bit about pets and one thing id thought would be good with pets is a definement between different pet AI.
I.e.
A.. Wolfs, Bears, Owls ect. cout as natural and their AI. is reasonably Autonomous with the ability to improve abilitys through their use in training (i.e. pet skill increase)

B.. Demons, Celestial, Dragons ect. cout as mythical. these pets should be classed as highly inteligent and possess very high Autonomy but do not have the ability to increase in skill. Ideal to tie it to a certain level summoning spell for instance.

C.. Robots, Cyborgs, Constructs ect. cout as tech based dependent on their owning players skill at creating AI. ( i.e. code to program their pets)

Option A is a is a good balace giving your pet the Autonomy to save your butt without a costant stream of commands to get it to react.

Option B would give you horifficly powerfull pets but would prove chaotic in a raid situation as you would have very little control over its actions and it would happily head off on a rampage killing anything and everything it thinks is a threat.

Option C would be of greater use in raid situations where you can program your pet to do exacty as its told so it dosnt go running of agroing the wrong mob because they smelt funny. One other benefit of this type of pet could be its versitility. Players could fit a range of weapons armor, and other modules to suit their needs.The downfall of this type of pet is that it could result in your pet just standing ther watching you get mullerd because you didnt quite have the opertunity to select a target and command it to kill it.(this dos happen sometimes).

The number of pets you can be in control of could be dependent on
A.. Empathy skill
B.. Spell specific/predefined/scripted
C.. cpu power of control equipmet currently in use by player

Spartan
03-25-2009, 12:05 AM
That is a intriguing pet feature. Umm, I don't think you understand how big a wolf pack can get, and how dangerous they actually are, they would kill a bear if needed. So some pets could be a singular "tank" while like the wolves, a "pack bonus" with additional stats with every added unit/pet with a max cap of 6, for lack of a better number.

Ronin
03-25-2009, 02:32 AM
Yea some wolf packs have been said to reach up to 50 members, though I've heard the average is around 20-30ish. In terms of pets I would like to see some pets of the more conventional sense bears, wolves, hyenas. And also like to see some more unique things that are well...unique to the KW universe.

I think your skill behavior idea would work well with an idea I posted here...
http://www.kaoswar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29&page=10
Post #95

Nurvus
03-26-2009, 12:12 PM
A Wolf Pack's size, and a "tameable" amount of Wolves are 2 different things.

More than a wolf working together, is a wolfpack.

I didn't say I would like Hunters to tame entire wolf packs, but to be able to tame 1 powerful creature (maybe 1 single wolf) or several weaker ones.
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As for the degree of intelligence on tameable beings:
Tameable Intelligent beings should be the ones with the greatest ability to learn new things, while the less Intelligent ones would mainly improve their natural abilities.

xXjokeXx
04-16-2009, 11:21 PM
I like What mess14h said about the pets but it would be cool if you could put armor on the pets that would be pretty cool but so it wouldn't be cheap maybe if its like big heavy metal armor it'd slow them down.

Damon
04-17-2009, 02:57 PM
Everyone of you would make great game designers. The more I play around with the idea of Crowdsourcing part of our design (or for all games made in the future) the more it really excites me. I am very proud that we have such early adopters like you guys.

Azrek
05-17-2009, 01:39 PM
I am excited it is a skill tree instead of a Class based. I never understood why every Healer had no idea how to lift weights to swing an axe well or could wear solid armor. Or why a fighter was always the dense drooling 'jock' we always consider them to be and could never cast a spell or use a potion that didn't have a brand name from Germany on it.

Now do the Skill trees have Skill trees?

Such as 2H Weapon then breaks into Axe, Sword, Pike, and Large Pointy thing?

Cheers,

Az

Aree
10-08-2009, 03:09 PM
Pets? Summoning? I've been looking but havn't found (yet) what skills there will be for such, if any.

I admit that I'm a pet fiend, gotta have em but.. simply attack with you, 3 to 5 skills and a dime a dozen pets all using the same skills/stats is a big turnoff. The idea that each type of monster not only attacks it's own way but that you have the ability to have more than one out.

Why not set it so the pet itself and it's abilities make it where other pets are involved. Take the wolf. You catch a normal wolf, fine, you get one wolf. However if you get an Alpha wolf, or lead wolf it will have a pack ability and it's level will affect how many will join it. However wolves follow the strongest male/female so it would have to dominate the lesser wolf by itself with no help from you. Or you can have it have Presence and some wolves would be attracted to it, moving to join you and you choose to accept or deny.

All this would require a.. mentality trait. Dominate, Submissive, Loner, Pleaser, Whiner, Agressive, ect. This would affect how they act, they could even be ones for the stronger pets, say a Powerful mentality and should you prove yourself too weak it would leave or attack you.

o.o Caffiene.. has fueled random thoughts. XD I just was gonna ask about what plans there were for pets and/or summoning.